2005-10-31

2005 November Thoughts

Please add your thoughts for 2005 November. Please check the groundrules before posting. They are unusual. If you make personal attacks against me or other posters, your comments will be deleted. If you, don't like the groundrules, you can debate me in the alt.politics.bush newsgroup. Talk about ideas and politicians. Leave your fellow debaters out of it.

28 comments:

UnitedStates-1776 said...

The genocide and torture against the Iraqi people, support for terrorism (including Palestinian suicide bombers), the use of chemical weapons against both the Kurds and the Iranians, and the immoral invasion of Kuwait and Iran are ALL REASON ENOUGH to justify military force to remove the Hussein regime from power.



As the world's only superpower and the only nation capable of projecting military power across the world in any significant way, America MUST use this power to stop threats to humanity wherever they occur even if that means using military force to bring justice to evil men.



War is hell, but unimpeded atrocities are even worse. Faced with such a choice, the governments of the world have a moral duty to make the painful decision to go to war to put an end to the atrocities.


I am so grateful that we have a president with moral clarity in the whitehouse today.

United States

Roedy said...

The same old blarney

The invasion of Iraq has nothing, zip, bugger all to do with liberating the Iraqi people from Saddam Hussein.

How do you know?

1. The USA happily supports other equally evil bastards all over the planet.

2. Saddam was captured in 2003. Yet war rages on even more ferociously after he was deposed. The war is about gaining control of Iraq and its resources, not deposing Saddam.

Roedy said...

Concern For Children is “Old”

I received an email from a staunch Bush supporter defending murder, rape, maiming and torture of children on the grounds that concern for childen is “old” and hence no longer a valid argument.

I thought you might like to examine the thought processes of such a person. See his letter and my response.

The letter is not part of this blog, so I did not feel the need to avoid personally attacking him, nor he me.

nolimitsoldier said...

The Same Old Balarney

I am in complete agreement with United States's posting - yes, war is hell, and yes - in an ideal world there would be no need for a military. However, were it not for the military intervention of the United States in Iraq, there would still be 25 million Iraqis living under the rule of a dictator who kills and tortures his own citizens (not to mention squanders the wealth of the nation for his own purposes, namely building dozens of majestic palaces while his own people starve and lack electricity).

Is it a bad thing that the per capita income of an Iraqi has doubled since 2003? Or that the Iraqi people now enjoy a free press, as opposed to millions of Syrians, Saudi Arabians, Iranians, Tunisians, or Egyptians?
(source is "Iraqi Unplugged" from the National Review Online, viewable from this link)

Is it a bad thing that "the first genuinely democratic national charter in Arab history had been approved by 79 percent of Iraqis" (source is "The Good News From Iraq Is Not Fit to Print, from the Boston Globe, viewable from this link).

Even supposing that the motives of the US going into the war were not about this, are we not supporting it now?

Can't there be some greater purpose or nobler cause than simply "gaining control of Iraq and its resources"?

I'll leave it up to a soldier to answer that question. His name is CPL Jeffrey B. Starr, a Marine from the 1/5 Marine Regiment and he wrote a letter to his girlfriend during his third tour of duty in Iraq. It was found by his parents when they were looking through his laptop that was returned to them after he died. The letter reads:

"Obviously if you are reading this then I have died in Iraq. I kind of predicted this, that is why I'm writing this in November. A third time just seemed like I'm pushing my chances. I don't regret going, everybody dies but few get to do it for something as important as freedom. It may seem confusing why we are in Iraq, it's not to me. I'm here helping these people, so that they can live the way we live. Not have to worry about tyrants or vicious dictators. To do what they want with their lives. To me that is why I died. Others have died for my freedom, now this is my mark."
(a shortened version of this letter, leaving out everything from "I don't regret going" to "Others have died for my freedom, now this is my mark" was published in the New York Times in their article "2000 Dead: As Iraq Tours Stretch On, a Grim Mark" This version was found at this site)

CPL Starr was willing to fight and die in Iraq for a cause greater than his own self-gratification or self-interest. He knew why he was there - and he was willing to set aside his own personal interests, his own desires for money, comfort, or even safety, because he wanted to help the Iraqi people. This letter wasn't written to a Congressman, or a newspaper - it wasn't written by the order of his commanding officer or some greater governmental conspiracy. This was a letter written from one man to his girlfriend, so that she would know why he chose to go to Iraq.

nolimitsoldier said...

Roedy, I especially like how you took Seth's letter completely out of context when you posted it on this blog. Particularly how you tied your own beliefs in with his letter, saying that he was "defending murder, rape, maiming and torture of children on the grounds that concern for childen is “old” and hence no longer a valid argument."

I just read his letter and didn't get anything close to that out of it (did you miss his comment that "I don't like seeing children dead anymore than you do"?)

Oh well - each to their own, right?

Cass said...

Opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one. Unfortunately some stink worse then others. The past couple of nights I have had a difficult time sleeping after viewing this website for the first time. It is a shame that our soldiers are dying for a cause that they believe is worth fighting for and some people like Roedy have to completely twist everything they fight for, and no its not for cheaper gas. Roedy likes to use only the bad apples as examples but who can blame him when he has nothing else to go with. Any soldier I have ever talked to has been happy with what they have done in Iraq. One of my good friends just came home from Fallujah and he says he can’t wait to get back. He says the progress he has seen is unbelievable. Not once did he mention the thousands of babies he was killing everyday. Maybe he is just unaware of the fact he is a murderer. Hopefully this May I will be able to start my basic training for the Marine Corps at Paris Island. I cant wait to be apart of rebuilding Iraq.

UnitedStates-1776 said...

Roedy writes, "The invasion of Iraq has nothing, zip, bugger all to do with liberating the Iraqi people from Saddam Hussein."


Well the war has resulted in the liberation of the Iraqi people from a brutal dictator, so you are mistaken.



In addition, the following quote by President Bush made 3 days after the war began shows that this war was more than just about the WMDs:


"And our mission is clear, to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, to end Saddam Hussein's SUPPORT FOR TERRORISM, and to FREE THE IRAQI PEOPLE."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030322.html


So it is clear that this war was about freedom for the Iraqis from the very beginning.



Roedy writes, "1. The USA happily supports other equally evil bastards all over the planet"

There is plenty of hypocrisy to go around. America is not the only nation that supports evil men around the world. Does this make our cause of getting rid of this evil man a mistake just because of our own hypocrisy? Of course not.


By that logic, NO NATION on the face of this Earth could bring justice to an evil ruler because of past or present support of evil rulers. The arguement is very weak.



Roedy writes, "2. Saddam was captured in 2003. Yet war rages on even more ferociously after he was deposed."

That's because we have terrorists in Iraq who want to either return to the days of Saddam or establish a Taliban-style government in Iraq. They don't want freedom to succeed in Iraq.



Roedy writes, "The war is about gaining control of Iraq and its resources, not deposing Saddam."

If that were the case, we would never have handed power back to the Iraqis.

United States

UnitedStates-1776 said...

As far as the letter from the Bush supporter, I think he could have explained things better and not left the impression that he supports torture. I can assure you that he most certainly does not even though this is the assumption that you make.



I like cass and nolimitsoldier's posts. That story of Jeffrey Starr shows that fighting for the freedom of people is a worthy goal.


The argument "Iraq did not attack America on 9/11" can be described in one word:

SELFISHNESS


America must move beyond a self-centered foreign policy and support an internationalist policy that cares for the problems of the world. Using military force to get rid of Saddam is an example of the courage, character, and unselfishness of America in its approach to the problems of the world.


And it is because of the courage of people like Jeffrey Starr that peace, justice, and freedom can continue to exist in our world.


Thank God for men of character like President Bush, and thank God for soldiers and Marines like Jeffrey Starr.

United States

WeThePeople said...

Roedy, first let me apologize for the inanity of my fellow countrymen, who are both trapped in and blinded by the ignorance of their own patriotism and brainwashed by their “leaders.”

I won’t bother to refute the misinformation and worn out Republican talking points spouted here, you’ve done a wonderful job of doing that yourself, Roedy.

My main point in writing is to say thank you for helping those of us here in the US to get the truth of the atrocities of the Iraq war. As you are probably aware, our mainstream media has been complicit in perpetuating the deceit and propaganda of the Bush administration while furthering the neocon agenda of global domination. Those citizens here who rely only upon mainstream sources are being fed a daily diet of misinformation that would make even George Orwell shudder.

Fortunately, for the moment, we still have access to the internet and it is here that we can, if we are so inclined, find the truth about our own country’s behavior.

While ignorance is no excuse for allowing war crimes and crimes against humanity to occur (isn’t this the defense German citizens used when questioned about the death camps in their back yards?) one can forgive those poor sods who do not use computers and are led like cattle by the media ring in their nose to believe whatever is told to them. But those who have written you here with their utter faux-patriot gibberish have absolutely no excuse for their ignorance because they have a way to find the truth. They are every bit as complicit in the crimes being committed against humanity by the United States as our “leaders” are.

Again, I thank you for providing perhaps the most valuable service a country who makes war against innocent sovereign nations can have—a place where dissenting citizens can find the truth of our own atrocities.

I’d tell you to keep up the great work, but the end of your site would mean the end of the Iraq war, and that would be the best thing of all.

UnitedStates-1776 said...

Big billy writes, "Roedy, first let me apologize for the inanity of my fellow countrymen, who are both trapped in and blinded by the ignorance of their own patriotism and brainwashed by their “leaders.”


You are the one who is trapped by the spin the left-wing media outlets in America give you. If you want to talk about the mainstream media's presentation of the war, I would say its more anti-war than pro-war, because they ALWAYS report the new soldier killed in Iraq but NEVER report on the good things that are happening in Iraq.



Big billy writes, "My main point in writing is to say thank you for helping those of us here in the US to get the truth of the atrocities of the Iraq war."

Atrocities? This is war, and the terrorists are responsible for every atrocity that takes place in Iraq. Our troops wouldn't have to use lethal force if these insurgents would lay down their arms and stop murdering innocent civilians.


Big billy writes, "Fortunately, for the moment, we still have access to the internet and it is here that we can, if we are so inclined, find the truth about our own country’s behavior."

Truth? This site if full of utter nonsense an anti-war spin. This site is obviously biased and cannot give a fair presentation of the facts.


Some facts this site will never mention is that Saddam is now awaiting trial for his crimes. Another fact this site won't mention is the elections held in Iraq where the Iraqi people, at great risk to their own lives, came out to vote. This shows that most Iraqis condemn the terrorists and want freedom and democracy.



Big Billy writes, "While ignorance is no excuse for allowing war crimes and crimes against humanity to occur (isn’t this the defense German citizens used when questioned about the death camps in their back yards?"

People like you are the ones who will destroy my country. Comparing a German's support for World War II with an American's support for the Iraq War is OFFENSIVE. Do you realize how offensive many of your fellow Americans will find this comparison.


Not only do you not support the war, but you have now shown all of us that you do not support the troops either, since you have claimed that they have committed "war crimes" and "crimes against humanity." You do not represent the America I know or the America that millions of other Americans know.


Big billy writes, "Again, I thank you for providing perhaps the most valuable service a country who makes war against innocent sovereign nations can have—a place where dissenting citizens can find the truth of our own atrocities."

How sad that you believe that the stuff written on this site is true. I feel sorry for you.

United States

UnitedStates-1776 said...

Big billy writes, "They are every bit as complicit in the crimes being committed against humanity by the United States as our “leaders” are."

I am not responsible for the abuses at Abu Ghraib or any other abuses done by our soldiers. This war is NOT criminal.


BTW, do not make Bush out to be the war criminal. If he is a war criminal, then so is everyone who voted for either Kerry or Bush. Bush, because he ordered the war, and Kerry, because he gave the president the authority to go to war.

United States

Roedy said...

I am not responsible for the abuses at Abu Ghraib

If you are a Christian, do you seriously believe God will buy the Republican excuses for war? Americans can't even claim self defence. As a Republican, you are responsible because you voted for the atrocities and continued war.

Further, if you continue to act as cheerleader for war, and make excuses for war, you kill just as effectively as those spreading the napalm. Consider that Bush himself is a deserter who never personally shot at anyone, but today he has killed well over 100,000 people.

In my eyes, anyone who promotes the Iraq war fully deserves death in the gas chamber, and even worse, for what they have done.

The U.N. has declared the war illegal. Anyone participating is even more guilty of a war crime than any Nazi in WW II before the creation of the U.N.

Have a look at the BitTorrent video about the white phosporhorus Republican taxpayers bought to torture the children of Iraq. Look at the reality of your crime. Stop hiding behind abstractions.

Roedy said...

But Kerry voted for the war too

This is about the lamest excuse I could imagine for war.

Other people's crimes don't excuse yours!

Second, Kerry's crime was trusting his president. No president in history had ever before Bush told so many lies and manufactured so much false evidence. Bush tricked the house and the senate into suporting his invasion claiming the USA was in imminent danger of a nuclear attack. He tricked them into thinking there was no time to double check.

Kerry is guilty of being gullible. Bush is guilty of premeditaded murder and so are those that still support Bush in his continued predation on the children of Iraq both killing them and sexually molesting and raping them for perverse sadistic pleasure.

UnitedStates-1776 said...

Roedy writes, "If you are a Christian, do you seriously believe God will buy the Republican excuses for war?"

Yes, because the war, in and of itself, is not immoral.


Roedy writes, "Further, if you continue to act as cheerleader for war, and make excuses for war, you kill just as effectively as those spreading the napalm"

Since when has napalm been used in the Iraq War. I think you are thinking of Vietnam.


I take full responsibility for my support for the war. It was the right thing to do for the people of Iraq.



Roedy writes, "In my eyes, anyone who promotes the Iraq war fully deserves death in the gas chamber, and even worse, for what they have done."

You confuse the accidental killing of Iraqi civilians by American soldiers with intentional cold-blooded murder. They are not the same.


Roedy writes, "The U.N. has declared the war illegal."

The laws of morality take precedence over the laws of the U.N. The U.N. has got it wrong to say this war is illegal.

United States

UnitedStates-1776 said...

Roedy writes, "Other people's crimes don't excuse yours!"

I have committed no crimes, because I do not follow laws made by the U.N. I follow American laws.


Roedy writes, "No president in history had ever before Bush told so many lies and manufactured so much false evidence."

I do not believe Bush deliberately lied. He was given bad intelligence by the CIA. Those who were incompetent at the CIA are the ones to blame for the bad information on the WMDs.


Roedy writes, "Bush tricked the house and the senate into suporting his invasion claiming the USA was in imminent danger of a nuclear attack"

He never made such a claim. If he did, prove it.


Roedy writes, "Bush is guilty of premeditaded murder......."

Then every war that is fought amounts to murder. That means Nazi Germany can conquer the world, and we cannot stop them, because we would commit murder if we did.


Bush has never ordered that innocent civilians be murdered.


Roedy writes, "........Bush in his continued predation on the children of Iraq both killing them and sexually molesting and raping them for perverse sadistic pleasure."

What proof do you have of this?

United States

Roedy said...

Yes, because the war, in and of itself, is not immoral.

"Conan, what is best in life?"
“To crush my enemy, to see him driven before me, and to hear the lamentations of the women."
~ Conan the Barbarian

If you don't see war as inherently wrong, justified only under extreme circumstances, then there is little possibility anything I say will have any effect on you.

What is really amusing is that you imagine Christ applauds your Vlad the Impaler morality. If the Christians are right, you're gonna have some serious 'splaining to do.

Roedy said...

Proof of Bush's Iraqi Rape Videos

First understand who Seymour Hersh is. He is a Pulitzer prize winner who writes for the New Yorker. He is the guy who broke the Mai Lai Massacre story — a similar story similarly denied by Republicans.

He has written a book called
Chain of Command: The Road from 9/11 to Abu Ghraib. Please read that.

Also please read two other books on that page: Inside the Wire : A Military Intelligence Soldier's Eyewitness Account of Life at Guantánamo and Torture and Truth: America, Abu Ghraib, and the War on Terror.

You claim to know more than I do about this. What have you read on it that you would recommend?

Hersh has seen the anal child rape video with his own eyes. Judge Alvin K Hellerstein forced Bush to release the videos which the administration admitted contained scenes of rape and sadism.

I don't know where you can see it for yourself though.

You can read Lewis (Scooter) Libby's child pornography novel about bears being forced to rape little girls. Astoundingly it is available at Amazon. That echos his real life use of attack dogs to rape little girls and boys.

For more details see atroctites and tortures.

nolimitsoldier said...

War inherently wrong?

Roedy said, "If you don't see war as inherently wrong, justified only under extreme circumstances, then there is little possibility anything I say will have any effect on you."

And that's where you're wrong Roedy. Just as I can see that some wars are NOT inherently wrong and you refuse to see those, there is also little possibility anything I will say will have any effect on you either.

Of course, in an ideal world, there wouldn't be war... but then again, in an ideal world, there wouldn't be terrorists that kill others based on their ethnic background. There wouldn't be dictators like Saddam that let their people starve to serve their own greed. Or others who force their own countrymen into starvation in order to solidify their own power (the Taliban).

Although war in and of itself is not the ultimate solution to the world's problems, it can also be used for good as well as evil. Just as war put Europe and a lot of European Russia under the control of Hitler (not to mention killed over 6 million Jews in a systematic campaign of human extermination), but war also liberated those countries and stopped the extermination. Just as war killed thousands of Kurds when they were gassed by Saddam, so can war guarantee their safety, not to mention the voting rights of 26 million Iraqis that didn't exist before the year 2004.

Wars are not black and white. Viewing all wars as bad is just as bad as someone viewing all poor people as beggars and thieves.

nolimitsoldier said...

Jesus Christ

Roedy said, "What is really amusing is that you imagine Christ applauds your Vlad the Impaler morality. If the Christians are right, you're gonna have some serious 'splaining to do."

God has had quite a long history of using wars to carry out His will. Whether it be the Israelites in the book of Joshua conquering the promised land to the invasion of the Babylonians and the resulting exile of the Jews, to the occupation of the Romans that led, ultimately, to Christ's crucifixion and His resurrection.

Just because this is a war doesn't mean that God can't use it to advance His will.

Roedy said...

War Is Inherently Wrong

What I mean by this is that killing, raping, stealing and maiming in themselves are wrong. War is doing these things on a massive scale. War is thus inherently wrong. Every war contains those elements. You can't escape them. That is what “inherent” means.

The suffering created by war is a strong reason to avoid any war.

War is not a neutral thing.

There are some circumstances where your only alternative to war is annihilation, but even then war is something to be avoided if there is any other means that will solve the problem. War is a last resort, not something you do for amusement, sport or national pride.

The Iraq war was an optional war. The only justification for it is economic — to steal/control Iraq's oil. I have given the arguments many times before why all the other justifications for the war are bogus. You can review them if you like.

Roedy said...

I have committed no crimes, because I do not follow laws made by the U.N. I follow American laws.

You are in for a bit of a shock.

In US law, treaties trump even the constitution. You are thus bound by the treaties the USA signs, and they signed on with the with U.N. So you are a war criminal if you participate in the illegal Iraq war, ironically, even by U.S. law.

Now the USA still does not recognise the authority of the international court in the Hague, but then neither did the Nazis recognise the authority of Nuremburg. That did not stop their prosecution.

The issue is twofold:
1. Are you a big enough fish to bother frying?
2. How long will the USA remain a superpower?

Once it is eclipsed it will no longer be able to protect its citizens from war criminal prosecution. Recall that many Nazis were not prosecuted until they were in their nineties. The USA will not always be on top to protect its citizens, and once its citizens learn the full horror of what went on in Iraq they might not even want to.

UnitedStates-1776 said...

Roedy writes, "If you don't see war as inherently wrong, justified only under extreme circumstances, then there is little possibility anything I say will have any effect on you."

Some wars are inherently wrong, but some are not. The Iraq war happens to be one that is NOT inherently wrong. In many ways there are aspects of this war (IE stopping a genocide) that make this war inherently right.


As far as the abuses, I do not deny that abuses have taken place. It is clear that at Abu Ghraib and other locations, abuses have occurred, including instances of possible rape and murder.


HOWEVER......

This does not make the whole war unjustified because a few people have chosen to disregard American laws against these abuses and the moral laws against these abuses. The war, in and of itself, is justified even if some things within the war itself (IE Abu Ghraib) are unjustified.


Abuses occurred even in World War II, yet most people today think that was a necessary and justified war.

United States

UnitedStates-1776 said...

Roedy writes, "What I mean by this is that killing, raping, stealing and maiming in themselves are wrong. War is doing these things on a massive scale."

How has raping and stealing been done on a massive scale in Iraq? The key word is "MASSIVE."


And since when is all "killing" wrong? Isn't the correct word "murder"? Are you telling me that the police can't shoot at a man who is holding a woman hostage with a gun, because killing him would be wrong?



Roedy writes, "The suffering created by war is a strong reason to avoid any war."

Of course, but sometimes wars must be fought for the sake of both justice and innocent people who would be abused and murdered had military force not been used to stop their persecutors.


War is painful and a living hell, but unimpeded genocide against innocent people is even worse.


Roedy writes, "War is a last resort, not something you do for amusement, sport or national pride."

I agree. I believe war was the last resort in Iraq. All efforts to resolve the situation peacefully had failed.


Roedy writes, "The Iraq war was an optional war."

So was America's war in Europe in both World War I and World War II. So was Canada's war in Europe in World War II. So was the Korean War. The list of "optional wars" is endless.


The only truly wars that cannot be optional are wars of self-defense. That means you can't help a neighbor who is being beaten up by an invader, because it doesn't involve your own self-defense.


Roedy writes, "In US law, treaties trump even the constitution."

I do not agree. I don't think that is correct. Our loyalty is first to the constitution of the United States and then to international treaties.


Roedy writes, " and once its citizens learn the full horror of what went on in Iraq they might not even want to."

What "horror" are you talking about outside of the isolated incidents at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere?

United States

Roedy said...

Remembrance Day

The TV news did a spot on Remembrance Day. It focussed on the young people and what Remembrance day meant to them. I was disheartened to hear them utter bromides such as “We are here to honour those who fought in all the wars for the peace and freedom because without their fighting we would not be here.”

Canada's war history is not as chequered as America's, but we have our dirty laundy too — such as the occupation of Afghanistan and making it into the #1 heroin producer in the world.

The young people completely missed the other half of what Remembrance Day is all about — remembering the horror and suffering of war and the lessons so painfully learned by our parents and grandparents that we must avoid war at all costs in future.

Roedy said...

Punishing War Criminals

Let's start with the 9/11 criminals. Most people, myself included, want not only those who drove the planes into the towers punished (if they are not dead already), they want anyone who had anything to do with funding or planning this act of terrorism punished as well. They want people who even did so much as drive the terrorists around punished. The preponderance of the evidence suggests those terrorists include the top echelon of the Bush administration.

Let's look at the Nuremberg trials. Nazis who claimed they were just following orders were told firmly that was no excuse. Even those who did not directly kill anyone, just ordered executions or helped maintain the ovens or gas chambers were guilty too.

Now let's look at the American war crimes with the same dispassionate eyes. Every American who participated in the Iraq war is a war criminal to some degree because the UN made it abundantly clear the invasion and occupation were illegal. The USA invaded without provocation offering only bogus excuses and counterfeit evidence.

Even when the excuses for the aggression were exposed as untrue, the Americans persisted with their occupation and extermination. Americans used internationally banned weapons such as white phosphorus, napalm, cluster bombs, and land mines. They targeted children and civilians. They tortured civilian men, women and children. They behaved as badly as the Nazis if not worse. They spent $250 billion dollars levelling the country and creating misery on an unimaginable scale. They spent $10,000 tormenting or killing each Iraqi child, woman or man.

Karmically, a suitable punishment would be to dig a great pit and toss every American who contributed to the Iraq War into it and douse them all with Willy Pete (white phosphorus) and let them die screaming in agony. Those in the pit would be a legion, including all the senators who voted to fund the war,and those who voted for Bush to extend the war, soldiers, mercenaries and support people who served in Iraq.

Traditionally, war criminals are given life imprisonment in solitary confinement. This is a much crueler punishment than lethal injection which is painless or firing squad which is over with in seconds.

Then there is the matter of enforcement. There are so many American war criminals, that the USA will try to protect them from prosecution. The question remains, can America do that successfully indefinitely?

When it is no longer the #1 superpower will America be able to stop other nations from prosecuting visiting American war criminals? Will it be able to protect its war criminals from vigilante actions and abductions?

Consider that some Nazi's were not prosecuted until they were in their 90s. The world 50 years from now will be very different from today.

Roedy said...

When You Think Muslim

Americans, when they think Muslim imagine some crazed character mounting a suicide attack. There are such people, but they are a tiny minority. Nearly all of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11.

My experience is quite different. I have always been interested in comparative religions, and so I have hung out with all kinds of people from Jehovah's witnesses to Buddhist monks to find out what they are about.

About a decade ago I decided to study Islam, and got to know the people of three different mosques including the Imam of one of the mosques.

Some time after that, two of my employees cooked up a clever embezzling scheme and totally wiped me out financially before I figured out what was happening.

A young straight Moslem man, I am embarrassed I don't remember his name, saw my predicament and volunteered to help me out. I was an emotional basket case. I felt so betrayed by the employees I considered close friends. He was a rock. He helped me through the weeks of shutting down the business. He asked for no money or favour.

I think Muslim and I think of him, with his calm reassurance, or the Imam with his firm calm strength.

Earlier, when the business was still thriving, two Muslim men came to take my build your own computer course. They started out in Ethiopia at age 12 as orphans, made their way to Egypt, then to Italy and finally to Canada. The tale was harrowing. When I think Muslim I also think of them, Jemal and Jamal, and their prevailing against terrible odds. They were the gentlest people you could imagine. They presented me with a copy of the Qu'ran which I read cover to cover.

I feel ill at the racist nonsense being bandied about for the need to kill all Muslims. It comes from the same place at Hilter's nutty desire to eradicate all the Jews.

Muslims are very much like fundamentalist Christians, only more so. They have complete conviction the Qu'ran is the final word on what is right and wrong. The Qu'ran is a much less bloodthirsty document than the Bible. I have read both. I find it odd that so many people have such strong opinions without taking any time to study those they supposedly hate. They just take some demagogue's word for it.

greg said...

wow its funny how we have'nt seen to get a hold of any of that sweet oil yet. As for the war. Lets kick some butt. Americans traditionally love to fight(thank you Gen. Patton) and i'm one of em. im joining the marines soon and i wish i could get a little support from you hippies. ooh rah

Roedy said...

Ooh Rah

This is the attitude of the barbarian and the Nazi. Bash your opponent and plunder his stuff. Might makes right.

If you live by those rules, you will die by them as well.

Just watch as other countries gradually start to treat the USA with the same contempt for morality that America treat others. You can't lower the standards of warfare without repercussions to yourself.

Americans are outnumbered 22 to 1.

War is only fun when the other guy is too small to fight back. War appeals to the KKK lynch mobbing bully. Watch Americans squeal like stuck pigs crying “unfair” the instant the war comes back to American soil. Watch them whine about how heartless everyone else is as the world gradually unites against America in a cold war.

America is a high technology country, and as Professor Burke pointed out way back in his Connections TV Series in 1979, that makes her highly vulnerable to even accidental disruption.